Hi, First and foremost, follow the manufacturer’s recommendations for a proper, warrantable installation…including installing the 6 mil. As far as installing the laminate, I would contact the manufacturer of whatever product you chose and have them give you some recommended solutions. I need a product that will allow me to put down tile, wood or laminate products. He claims that in his past jobs that used vapor barriers, he got no cracking in the concrete driveways. However, in case you would like to construct a gravel parking pad for your RV, make it a point to place a vapor barrier in between the tires and the ground. I think this may help ensure a successful installation. I want to glue cork tiles down.Should I be concerned? Step 4: Cut Opening for Utilities. It is still too wet on the wood near slab under the crawlspace. Find out where to buy vapor barriers and other problem solving products. The quality of the concrete used (Eg 15 MPa vs 20 MPa / 2175 psi vs 2900 psi) has a large bearing in it. What type of moisture barrier should be used and where it should be installed is a subject of debate. Paint just seems to peel and pop up. Especially due to this being a flooding situation, I think the “sealer” is warranted. Angie, Regarding the roof coating, it would just depend on the actual perm rating of the coating as to whether it would be an effective vapor retarder. We had a new draining system installed, Drylock was painted on the outside slab and gravel was installed alongside the house wall. Anyone that has had to face a moisture problem with a concrete slab understands the damage that excess moisture can cause. Thanks for the question. At first it seems so perfect because it keeps your gravel and mulch neatly separated from the soil, BUT it does not stay that way. However, the current practice recommended by the American Concrete Institute is to apply a heavy grade, non-penetrable vapor barrier (or retarder) with the lowest possible permeance for the application over a layer of granular fill (crushed rock, gravel, etc.). Maybe sometime down the line when I can afford I’ll get a concrete slab but I’m not sure how mandatory that would be. What can I paint onto the subfloor to eliminate moisture coming through when it rains? However I noticed when the vapor barrier was laid down there were some gaps of a couple inches of exposed gravel on a couple of the sides and probably the overlap and sealing was not done very well, so I’m concerned that there is some exposed gravel right beneath the new cement pad in several places. I’m remodeling a home in the Florida Keys. Thanks for the comments. Not sure there is a text book answer to this, but I think I would probably look to do some type of sheet vapor barrier down. Another option will be to use leveling blocks as well. I need advice on a product that I can paint (or apply) to a cement floor on a porch that is being converted to a sunroom. Vapor barriers have varying degrees of permeability, expressed in perms. I ruled out plumbing by a pressure test, and ruled out AC by diverting the drain. obviously we will lay plastic for the entire floor but thought would be double protection under the footing trenches and posts to protect from moisture. A sand layer should NOT be installed between the VB and the concrete. My installer was half way through the job laying the tile when I realized some of the tiles were hollow to the tap…i pulled up some of these tiles to see that the thinset was not adhering to the slab (brittle actually) and in other areas it seemed to adhere fine…under one area of tile we noticed that the thinset adhered but the was some beading water in some of the thinset groves. Do You Really Need a Vapor Retarder or Vapor Barrier? Lastly, here is a link to a tile size/trowel size guideline table: http://www.elitebuilding.com/tile/ref/trowelsize.htm. I’ve then had people suggest laying tile on it after it’s been diamond graded but that it could still come up through that but not be as bad because it will only come up through the grout. Thanks!. Based on these results, shop the product that handles your moisture testing results. A much better approach is a true vapor barrier, with characteristics that conform to the requirements of ASTM E-1745, "Standard Specification for Water Vapor Retarders Used in Contact with Soil or Granular Fill under Concrete Slabs." I have a slab foundation (on grade), and one room seems to have a moisture issue when it rains. A couple of the hardwood floor contractors recommended that a concrete sealer be installed prior to putting down new felt and plywood. Enjoy the party barn. My fear would be more about the floor being ruined than mold. He said with all the gravel and the French drains along the edges it was not necessary to have the membrane right up to the edges. The patio will have an open screen cage on it . Millions of cubic yards of concrete are poured directly on top of fluted steel (an obvious vapor impermeable material) floor decks every year. Yes, you should put a vapor barrier under concrete slabs to prevent moisture from wicking up into the slab and onto the surface of your concrete slab, patio, or driveway.Ensure the vapor barrier is above both the gravel and rigid foam and immediately below the slab. He did not put vapour barrier under cement! If you are going to do some type of finish, most would recommend a vapor retarder. Very nice that they used a thicker membrane though, you don’t see that as often in residential applications. Once you know this, then you can try to investigate solutions. Thanks for the comment. I would test via a Calcium Chloride test or a relative humidity test like the Rapid RH test. Our rental home had a slab with laminate flooring glued directly to the slab. Thanks for the question. My concern is two-fold: 1) Will using this “air tight” method cause moisture to get trapped under the plastic sheet with no way to escape? !……please help? Why Weed Barrier Fabric Doesn't Work. As the vapor barrier is being rolled out simply cut small … The floor is not even and has lots of peaks and valleys and rough surfaces (since it’s a crawl space that no one walks on, we did not deem it necessary to even out). After moving in I discovered, on the stick built 4th exterior wall, a spot of mold on the interior drywall covering the stick built section. Good luck. Obviously, I am not endorsing any of these, but they are products that come up in daily discussions. Now we are considering putting some type of barrier between the two, and are toggling between the mvb moisture mitigation product and a moisture barrier underlayment beneath the vinyl. I am not sure about the moisture being trapped in the foam, but there is a distinct possibility that the moisture could be because of some air quality issues. The contractor said he could rip up all the laminate and put down a vapor barrier, but he said it would be a waste since the laminate floor would act as the barrier. Thank you! When he started working I asked him if he measured the moisture in the concrete and he said no he hasn’t but it doesn’t feel moist. When using stone mulch, it's important to install a barrier between the soil and the stones.The barrier serves two important functions. What type of moisture testing was done on the slab, and then on the gypcrete? There are other manufactures like W.R. Meadows that make equivalent vapor barriers to Stego Wrap. One word: adhesives. Thanks for the email. I had heard of vapor barrier problems and wondered if this could be the reason behind these problems…. I have a basement concrete slab on grade that is 30 years old. Curling can be controlled with well-graded aggregate and a little more reinforcement in the lower part of the slab. Any help would be greatly appreciated. Different areas have different building requirements. As far as any topical treatment, I would need to moisture test to determine that. Since the crushed … Good luck. The paint store said to put on this armor 2 part epoxy paint and it should resist the moisture. What to Do When You Find an Old Wet Concrete Slab, How to Prepare a Concrete Floor for Coatings, Best Conditions for Faster Drying Concrete Times. Thanks for the question. I don’t think I should proceed with the pouring of my radiant concrete slab given this situation. We have a split home with typical family room downstairs that sits on concrete. should i cover the cement ground using poly tarp ? It is an old building built in the early 70’s which purchased 4 years It had mold remediation done but we do not have contact with the previous owner to query where this work was done. The plastic blocks water from settling out of the concrete. Ground is heavy clay, no pump out – he utilized natural draining with weeping tile. A vapor barrier is a thin plastic sheet taped down under the house that covers the ground and walls inside a crawl space to block out all moisture. Sometimes the drying out process is done well enough by accepted insurance practices, but not always food enough to accepted flooring practices. Always read the warranties. I just hit him up on Twitter and I am hoping he will help us out. The boards were removed and the slab was found to have a high moisture content. I have a client that owns older apartment communities ranging from 400-275 units each. Most vapor barriers are created using polyethylene or polyolefin sheets that are strong enough (at least 10 mils thick) to tolerate the kind of heavy construction activity that goes on over concrete subfloors. I have a question on floating concrete slab (interior). Energy efficiency is an integral part of building construction, and crawl space encapsulation can allow contractors to maximize energy efficiency through prevention of moisture transfer. Good luck. my issue is moisture. Usually performing a core test is the best way to confirm the presence of a vapor retarder. my mother had a slab leak inMay and it flooded her whole house. Apparently I may have made worse because we just had to replace the sub flooring again here within the last month. What could be causing this? The membrane can then be covered with your chosen surface or gravel. We put down laminate flooring that is now warped. Although not using a vapor retarder may be debatable for the improved strength and health of the concrete, not using one is catastrophic for most flooring finishes. Use 2x4 boards, to mark the driveway area where you want to lay the crushed gravel. A gravel driveway, even a loose gravel driveway, can be just as long-lasting and durable as one made of asphalt or concrete, if not more so, as long as you know how to properly lay the gravel.In fact, the most significant trait that distinguishes gravel is that it’s more affordable and easier to lay without professional labor or expertise than concrete or asphalt. They are a network of flooring inspectors. With the French drains, this may not be as critical, but you will usually see uniform coverage in a vapor retarder. I plan to install Luxury Vinyl planks with cork backing everywhere, but do not want to install a crinkly underlayment/moisture barrier. this is why i’m doing the slab so i have one solid and flat floor. We have a very long run of approximately 34 ft. If it doesn’t, a moisture imbalance could eventually cause a flooring failure. Thanks for the question. That being said, I would consult with the engineer that specified the poly for guidance. Unfortunately, the deck part of my house is not finished yet (still bare wood) and rain have started to seep through the beam and leaked onto my ready floor. The tile option might be a good one if you can use something like Ditra or Ardex Flexbone. Does my slab need to have a vapor barrier and reinforcement pre pour? We used treated joists (but not treated sub flooring and cheap pine hardwood tongue and groove, I hate pine). Thanks for your advice. If parts of the slab got cold enough to reach its dew point, I suppose condensation could form, but to have it be spotty is indeed strange. (ls that DryLok?) Do you have any suggestions on ways to reinforce the vapor barrier to make sure that it’s not punctured and OK for me to use as a storage space? Michael. would that protect the wood beams from mold and mildew? This can allow moisture from the ground to penetrate up through the concrete, resulting in damp conditions. I have a home in West Florida with a detached garage that is a slab on grade. I used Healthier Choice Spillmaster carpet padding under my carpet. Vapor retarders are typically specified according to ASTM E 1745 and have a permeance of less than 0.3 US perms (0.2 metric perms), when tested by ASTM E 96. I noticed what the installer was doing and I questioned him but did not push through asking him to fix the spreading of the vapor barrier before pouting the cement which I regret. I think you may be best served contacting nwfa.org. You should be able to find some type of geotechnical service in your area that can perform a core sample test of the garage floor. The carpet feels slightly gritty at all times (regardless of steam cleaning), but when it rains, the carpet almost feels damp and gritty. It might be worth investigating yourself or having someone out to evaluate. Exception: The vapor retarder may be omitted: From garages, utility buildings and other unheated accessory structures. See below for more discussion on this. Generally, you’ll want to use a low-permeance vapor barrier when you need to protect a slab that’s going to be covered by moisture-sensitive materials like adhesives and floor coverings. aren’t we afraid of the water in the concrete to be leaked to the sand. I would say you are on the right track with insulating the break between the cooler slab and the wood. If this is the case, research some of the various moisture mitigation products available that are topically applied to the slab. If I pull up floor, lay plastic and put new flooring down is there a risk of mold growing between concrete and vapour barrier? The vapor barrier can be placed under the subbase, if the building is closed in when the dry subbase material is placed. Wow, what an experience. Also, in some of the inquiries I read about smells, and radon. … Granted i did let the carpet sit for about a week before pulling it up entirely. Just ensure the product you choose warrants against hydrostatic pressure. We thought well we’ll put on on top and throw some laminate over it, but I worry would that trap the moisture below and create a mold issue on the concrete, or would a vapor barrier and an insulation product on top stop it from sweating so much anyhow? What should my next move be, don’t know who to reach out to. In 2001, the recommendation changed to typically placing the concrete directly on the vapor barrier. Not only will it help reduce weed growth sprouting from the soil, but it also keeps the stones in place and prevents them from sinking into the soil. I have opened the garage doors to dry it out and it gets even worse. We installed laminate flooring about 6 years ago and now have a terrible odor. The second it dries out this reaction stops. Protect the vapor barrier as much as possible during construction and repair any damaged spots with the manufacturer's tape. Plastic will not do any of those things. If I wanted to apply the shiplap directly to the slab would I need to install a paint on or plastic vapor barrier, or must I use furring strips? Good Luck. I would check here to investigate further: https://www.tcnatile.com/faqs/71-thick-setthick-bed.html. The gravel stays in place pretty well, I don't have problems with it pushing out to the sides or ending up where I don't want it. Or would a poly modified medium bed thinset be sufficient? The gravel also creates a drain pad which allows any ground moisture and gasses to dissipate. After about a year, they noticed small “pimple like” defects in the wood, in a few boards in the office. Would pouring a new slab over the existing one be something to consider? If yes, does the slab have an intact vapor retarder? Keep in mind that there are varying thicknesses available and with the varying thicknesses you obviously get better performance. Is it possible that a temperature difference between the slab and room above the wood is causing condensation to build up under the floor? Hi Jason According to the Guide to Concrete Floor and Slab Construction published by the American Concrete Institute, a vapor retarder should not be less than 10 mils thick. I would contact https://www.stegoindustries.com/ And see if they have a viable option for you. When the ground is particularly soft after a thaw, I get some spots where the gravel works its way into the ground and I need to reapply it in patches, but it's no big deal. • Vapor semi-impermeable: 1.0 perms or less and greater than 0.1 perm I would always have to defer back to your local building code on this. Can you please provide further clarification? You should research them and look at warranties. If you have a concrete floor that’s in continuous contact with a source of moisture, you’re going to have problems. I doubt the slab has a vapor barrier. If the basement slab was poured directly on the ground, rather on a true vapor barrier, then the ground underneath the slab will always be ‘in play’, and the moisture in the ground below will always want to move upward to the slab’s surface. And adding epoxy resin between the new and old slab. What do you suggest? Our neighbors don’t get dampness and wetness in their garages when it is humid out. I’m not sure I understand your question. Do I need to dismantle my rebar and styrofoam to dry the potential puddle sitting on top of the poly? The condo has had laminate flooring in it for years. Regular maintenance should only need to be performed once or twice a year. I asked him to get his moisture reader and just measure it. Today I was sitting in a chair, cleaning tools and putting them in the toolbox… I felt somewhat of a movement, and then my chair began to rock, I kept hearing cracking noises and the floor under me began to lift my chair up. Our ins. I checked the construction photos and do see that a barrier was installed. If ground conditions require their use, a 3-inch (75-millimeter) layer of sand over the vapor barrier (and under the concrete) has been shown to reduce these problems. Good luck. The vapor barrier can be placed under the subbase, if the building is closed in when the dry subbase material is placed. If the subbase is sharp angular gravel, a thin layer of sand can be placed on top of the gravel subbase next to the vapor barrier. It is … If you do tear the plastic, simply tape a new piece over it. Hi Jason, Should I put a vapor barrier down before pouring??? I popped up 1 of the tiles, it was really moist under there…can you please tell me what has happened here? I refer to the American Concrete Institute 302.1 specification and specifically, this flow chart: http://www.cement.org/images/default-source/contech/construction/vapor_fig2_large.jpg?Status=Temp&sfvrsn=2. I’m getting two different directions from two different contractors (with very different prices): #1 (Cheaper option) Pour new concrete on top of the old concrete Never punch holes in the vapor barrier to allow bleedwater to escape. My son has severe lung disease and cannot have any mold or mildew. Concrete Garage Floors & Vapor Transmission . Upon further investigation I found that the concrete walled sections of the foundation were covered with 1/2″ plywood over top of some type of other material and the plywood was covered on the outside with a latice wood material, purpose unknown to me. Good luck! First I would contact the manufacturer of the LVP and find out if it is acceptable to install their product over the laminate product you have below. At this point, the most-accepted method commercially is the American Society for Testing and Materials (ASTM) F2170 method. Vapour Barrier Under … I will assume cosmetic based on how you described it. The slab has plastic sheeting underneath it already. Thanks for the comments. Great information. Thanks. Avoiding moisture-related problems with concrete sealers: Reducing bond failures caused by moisture- vapor transmission, Don't let water vapor delaminate your overlay, W. R. MEADOWS White Paper - Tips on Choosing Vapor Barriers, Most exterior slabs do not need a vapor barrier. 2. We are laying a new basement floor for bedrooms and new lounge downstairs we are doing the footings 1st – would you recommend laying the plastic barrier in the footings trench also before we do the entire floor? A gravel driveway can be a classic lowmaintenance and inexpensive addition to a home. Question for you. Your email address will not be published. Thank you. Install The Proper Type Of Vapor Barrier Siouxland Homes . If you also install a vent stack for soil gas, the gravel will provide a base layer through which air can move laterally toward the stack. This may help you understand better. Heated driveways are basically a radiant floor system that is installed outdoors under a driveway. claim is taking care of everything related to reconstruction phase, I think. However, it was not my intention to use quarter round which means that I would, instead, bring it up behind the baseboard (which of course gets sealed with caulk at the top). Our luxury vinyl floor was laid directly on top of it. I am putting down the plastic barrier on top of the sub-floor, and then the new Pergo laminate on top of that. The higher the number, the more permeable the material. There are many products on the market that would allow you to apply a moisture remediation product on the original concrete and then you a self-leveling product for smoothing. I’m just concerned that if something is stored in there that it could cause problems if the barrier is punctured. I need you help or is something I need to do around the Concret slab?? Now that being said, people re-purpose all the time. We have a home in Houston that has been flooded with the hurricane, and all flooring other than the travertine tile has been removed. The science surrounding concrete is complex. Some supports come with wide bearing pads. Others see vapor barriers as essential and argue that they prevent adhesive failures, retard the growth of mold and mildew, and even prevent certain noxious gasses from entering a building. Copyright © 2021 Wagner Meters|Warranty|Return Policy|Terms & Conditions|Privacy Policy, Why You Should Use Relative Humidity (RH) Testing, Become a Wagner Meters Authorized Distributor, Flooring, Millwork, Furniture and Cabinet Manufacturers, Musical Instrument Manufacturer and Luthiers, Building Restoration and Inspection Professionals, Concrete Vapor Barriers: Everything You Need to Know, Free Download – 4 Reasons Why Your Concrete Is Taking Forever to Dry. As long as there is moisture present in the concrete it will continue to get stronger and improve at an ever decreasing rate. OT- Vapor barrier for gravel barn floor? So, am wondering what would the effect be if it were to happen? I’m I right or am wrong this guy has really screwed me on this the form he built wasn’t strong enough to hold so the top of the form is push out 3 inches from the bottom there a spot in the middle of the slab that holds water this guy thinks he’s going to get paid for this he got the first draw he’s not getting anything else. Thanks for the question. The “planks” of plywood will use the width of a penny for spacers and using a combination of adhesive and concrete nails to secure. For a foundation on slab, install the vapor barrier under the gravel base. I will send you an email shortly with some additional information and attachments. I hope this helps. Is there something I need to be aware of and watching for in having a concrete floor as my flooring? Have you done moisture testing? Weeds are a huge issue here in Portland. I was wondering if it would be a reasonable plan to spread a layer of fibered roof coating over the existing concrete to make a seamless vapor barrier before pouring the 4″ slab over it? … Livingroom and Hallway have hardwood floors. Don’t know which way to go! I’ve also had the roof and windows inspected. … Impermeable vapor barriers are those with a rating of 0.1 perm or less while class II vapor retarders are those with a rating greater than 0.1 perm and less than 1.0 perm. I am trying to figure out if I should remove this plywood and latice material and recover the foundation, externally, with something else. Personally, I would follow their guidance. Given that the “interior” will be so open to the elements, is there any benefit to installing a vapor barrier under the concrete slab? Best regards, Hi Jason. Will I have to tear out concrete and start from scratch & be sure to add a vapor barrier, what will be the proper steps to take before pouring the concrete? Hi Jason, I have a problem. Thanks for the questions. Hi, I live in Houston and have an outdoor patio that I had stained and sealed. I paid the concrete company my buddy owns it and dont want him to get screwed. I would say that it really depends on the amount of moisture in the concrete as to which one would be best to utilize. A 6-mil (0.006 inch; … I don’t believe it’s capillary action from the water table because when I pull back an area of the plastic, that area dries out in a day or so. The builder says they’re going to put a patch over the puncture and lay another sheet of vapor barrier. If you are going to seal an exterior slab, find a sealer that transmits water vapor (breathes). What options do I have for vapor barriers/vapor mitigation? He continued to install and said his device must be broke. Thanks for the question. was not leveled at all. He did and the moisture level was at 100%. I removed any tar paper that I could and placed a crawl space fan under the store to try to help dry it out. You’ll hear people using the terms ‘vapor barrier’ and ‘vapor retarder’ interchangeably. The plumbing in the entire house was done in 2018.
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